[Wsssc] Student Conduct and Admissions

[Dave Paul]

Hi Joe,
Thank you very much for sending this...I appreciate it!

I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving break.

Dave

David M. Paul, Ph.D.
Vice President for Student Services
Skagit Valley College
2405 East College Way   Mount Vernon WA, 98273
(360) 416-7738

From: wsssc [mailto:wsssc-bounces at lists.ctc.edu] On Behalf Of Joe Holliday
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2016 12:51 PM
To: wsssc at lists.ctc.edu
Subject: [Wsssc] FW: Student Conduct and Admissions

Colleagues: sorry for the delay, this fell through the cracks for both Dave Stolier and I. Here is a well-thought-out response from Dave and his fellow AGs on the question Dave Paul originally posted regarding the student applicant who had been dismissed from a previous institution for a violation of the student conduct code.

[Joe]
Joe Holliday
Director of Student Services

[SBCTC Logo color]

1300 Quince St SE, PO Box 42495
Olympia, WA 98504-2495
360-704-4334    jholliday at sbctc.edu<mailto:jholliday at sbctc.edu>

From: Stolier, Dave (ATG) [mailto:DaveS at ATG.WA.GOV]
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2016 10:06 AM
To: Joe Holliday
Cc: Higgins, Kerena (ATG)
Subject: RE: Student Conduct and Admissions


·         Contrary to the universities, the CTC system has an open door admissions policy, subject to the two exceptions in the statute cited by Jason below.

·         The use of the  "create a disruptive atmosphere" by the student's very presence exception should be used sparingly and only upon readily provable facts.  Otherwise, the exception could grow to swallow the (open door) rule and the system would risk losing the exception.

·         There is no process built into using this exception and thus there is risk of erroneously depriving someone of the ability to enroll based on rumor or inaccurate facts.  We have discussed this exception among the attorneys internally and have concluded that a college should be ready to provide some process if it invokes this exception-minimally an opportunity for the student to be told what the basis is for the decision and opportunity to demonstrate either that the college has erroneous facts or that college's assessment that student would create a disruptive atmosphere is erroneous.   I understand Jason at GHC did offer an appeal when they invoked the exception.  Based on some experience, I strongly urge colleges to check with legal counsel before they turn a student away under this exception.

·         I would tend to endorse Robert's approach unless the prospective student has shown himself/herself to be a serious danger to people on campus.  In this case, Dave Paul states only that the student was dismissed for violating the code at another college.  I would be inclined to talk to the student and find out more and make some kind of assessment as to whether he she presents a danger.

·         Depending on the nature of the conduct, the mere fact of a violation of another institution's conduct code by itself should not be enough to deny admission.  Presumably the student was punished at the previous institution and consistent with due process, cannot be charged with violating the new college's code based on behavior at the previous college.  The fact that a student was a pest at another institution should not be enough.  You should assess assuming that you would be comfortable making that case before a court that there is a foreseeable disruption, i.e, other students' rights to complete their education would be burdened, sufficient to justify denying this student an opportunity to enroll.

·         Like Alison, if there are speech issues involved I would have more concerns.

·         That all said, the only thing I know about the question that started this conversation is that the student was dismissed for violating the code at another college.  As with so many things, the actual facts are important to the decision and should be discussed with your AAG.


From: Hoseney, Jason [mailto:jason.hoseney at ghc.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 9:14 AM
To: Debra Gilchrist; Robert Cox; Joe Holliday; Stevens, Alison M; Ata Karim
Cc: David Pelkey; Belden, William; Gail Miulli; Damon Bell; Luca Lewis; Ruby Hayden; Toni Castro; Dave Paul; Darren Pitcher; Christina Castorena; Lin Zhou; Juanita Ricks; Erin Blakeney; Jack Huls; Sue Orchard; Leslie Blackaby; Glen Cosby; Chio Flores; Jessica Gilmore; Deb Casey; Mary Chikwinya; Linda Fossen; Dawna Haynes; Yoshiko Harden; Rosie Rimando; Joe Barrientos; Pat Campbell; Matthew Campbell; Jose DaSilva
Subject: RE: Student Conduct and Admissions

I have used the following to both admit students on a probationary status and deny admission. In the case where we denied admission, we made a case the student's presence (based on past conduct at several other institutions) would create a disruptive atmosphere. Our AG approved our denial and the student chose not to appeal.
WAC 131-12-010
Minimum standards for admission to a community or technical college.
(1) Any applicant for admission to a community or technical college shall be admitted when, as determined by the chief administrative officer of the district or his or her designee, such applicant:
(a) Is competent to profit from the curricular offerings of the college; and
(b) Would not, by his or her presence or conduct, create a disruptive atmosphere within the community or technical college inconsistent with the purposes of the institution; and
(c) Is eighteen years of age or older; or
(d) Is a high school graduate; or
(e) Has applied for admission under the provisions of a student enrollment options program such as running start or a successor program; or other local student enrollment options program.
(2) However, an applicant transferring from another institution of higher education who meets the above criteria, but who is not in good standing at the time of his transfer may be conditionally admitted to a community or technical college on a probationary status as determined by the chief administrative officer of the community or technical college district or his or her designee.

Jason
From: Debra Gilchrist [mailto:DGilchrist at pierce.ctc.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 8:57 AM
To: Robert Cox; Joe Holliday; Stevens, Alison M; Ata Karim
Cc: David Pelkey; Belden, William; Gail Miulli; Damon Bell; Luca Lewis; Ruby Hayden; Toni Castro; Dave Paul; Darren Pitcher; Christina Castorena; Lin Zhou; Juanita Ricks; Erin Blakeney; Jack Huls; Sue Orchard; Hoseney, Jason; Leslie Blackaby; Glen Cosby; Chio Flores; Jessica Gilmore; Deb Casey; Mary Chikwinya; Linda Fossen; Dawna Haynes; Yoshiko Harden; Rosie Rimando; Joe Barrientos; Pat Campbell; Matthew Campbell; Jose DaSilva
Subject: RE: Student Conduct and Admissions

We did encounter this situation with a student that had been dismissed from two other CTC institutions.  We were advised that we could meet with the student after they officially enrolled and prior to the start of classes but could not hold up an enrollment.  We could only act after the student stepped outside of our campus code of conduct.    I think the suggestion to get an official AG opinion would be helpful.    I recall that the way we learned about the student and the dismissal was a factor in how we could intervene.

-deb



From: Robert Cox [mailto:robert.cox at centralia.edu]<mailto:[mailto:robert.cox at centralia.edu]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 8:40 AM
To: Joe Holliday <jholliday at sbctc.edu<mailto:jholliday at sbctc.edu>>; Stevens, Alison M <amstevens at shoreline.edu<mailto:amstevens at shoreline.edu>>; Ata Karim <ata.karim at bellevuecollege.edu<mailto:ata.karim at bellevuecollege.edu>>
Cc: David Pelkey <dpelkey at spscc.edu<mailto:dpelkey at spscc.edu>>; Belden, William <wbelden at clark.edu<mailto:wbelden at clark.edu>>; Gail Miulli <gmiulli at everettcc.edu<mailto:gmiulli at everettcc.edu>>; Damon Bell <dbell at olympic.edu<mailto:dbell at olympic.edu>>; Luca Lewis <llewis at whatcom.ctc.edu<mailto:llewis at whatcom.ctc.edu>>; Ruby Hayden <ruby.hayden at lwtech.edu<mailto:ruby.hayden at lwtech.edu>>; Toni Castro <tcastro at highline.edu<mailto:tcastro at highline.edu>>; Dave Paul <dave.paul at skagit.edu<mailto:dave.paul at skagit.edu>>; Darren Pitcher <darren.pitcher at spokanefalls.edu<mailto:darren.pitcher at spokanefalls.edu>>; Christina Castorena <christina.castorena at edcc.edu<mailto:christina.castorena at edcc.edu>>; Lin Zhou <lzhou at bates.ctc.edu<mailto:lzhou at bates.ctc.edu>>; Juanita Ricks <juanita.ricks at cptc.edu<mailto:juanita.ricks at cptc.edu>>; Erin Blakeney <eblakeney at cascadia.edu<mailto:eblakeney at cascadia.edu>>; Jack Huls <jhuls at pencol.edu<mailto:jhuls at pencol.edu>>; Sue Orchard <sorchard at lowercolumbia.edu<mailto:sorchard at lowercolumbia.edu>>; Jason Hoseney <jason.hoseney at ghc.edu<mailto:jason.hoseney at ghc.edu>>; Leslie Blackaby <lblackaby at yvcc.edu<mailto:lblackaby at yvcc.edu>>; Glen Cosby <glen.cosby at scc.spokane.edu<mailto:glen.cosby at scc.spokane.edu>>; Chio Flores <cflores at wvc.edu<mailto:cflores at wvc.edu>>; Jessica Gilmore <jgilmoreenglish at rtc.edu<mailto:jgilmoreenglish at rtc.edu>>; Deb Casey <dcasey at greenriver.edu<mailto:dcasey at greenriver.edu>>; Mary Chikwinya <mchikwinya at tacomacc.edu<mailto:mchikwinya at tacomacc.edu>>; Debra Gilchrist <DGilchrist at pierce.ctc.edu<mailto:DGilchrist at pierce.ctc.edu>>; Linda Fossen <lfossen at btc.ctc.edu<mailto:lfossen at btc.ctc.edu>>; Dawna Haynes <dawnah at bigbend.edu<mailto:dawnah at bigbend.edu>>; Yoshiko Harden <yoshiko.harden at seattlecolleges.edu<mailto:yoshiko.harden at seattlecolleges.edu>>; Rosie Rimando <rosie.rimando at seattlecolleges.edu<mailto:rosie.rimando at seattlecolleges.edu>>; Joe Barrientos <joe.barrientos at seattlecolleges.edu<mailto:joe.barrientos at seattlecolleges.edu>>; Pat Campbell <pcampbell at columbiabasin.edu<mailto:pcampbell at columbiabasin.edu>>; Matthew Campbell <MCampbell at pierce.ctc.edu<mailto:MCampbell at pierce.ctc.edu>>; Jose DaSilva <jose.dasilva at wwcc.edu<mailto:jose.dasilva at wwcc.edu>>
Subject: RE: Student Conduct and Admissions

Good morning everyone!
We have not encountered this at Centralia. If we did I would do as Joe described. It would be important not to place restrictions on the student though since they would not have had due process at our institution. If an issue arises at our college we would sanction quickly by following our conduct process. The conversation I would have with the student would be good evidence for the hearing.

Robert

From: Joe Holliday [mailto:jholliday at sbctc.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 8:35 AM
To: Stevens, Alison M <amstevens at shoreline.edu<mailto:amstevens at shoreline.edu>>; Ata Karim <ata.karim at bellevuecollege.edu<mailto:ata.karim at bellevuecollege.edu>>
Cc: David Pelkey <dpelkey at spscc.edu<mailto:dpelkey at spscc.edu>>; Belden, William <wbelden at clark.edu<mailto:wbelden at clark.edu>>; Gail Miulli <gmiulli at everettcc.edu<mailto:gmiulli at everettcc.edu>>; Damon Bell <dbell at olympic.edu<mailto:dbell at olympic.edu>>; Luca Lewis <llewis at whatcom.ctc.edu<mailto:llewis at whatcom.ctc.edu>>; Ruby Hayden <ruby.hayden at lwtech.edu<mailto:ruby.hayden at lwtech.edu>>; Toni Castro <tcastro at highline.edu<mailto:tcastro at highline.edu>>; Dave Paul <dave.paul at skagit.edu<mailto:dave.paul at skagit.edu>>; Darren Pitcher <darren.pitcher at spokanefalls.edu<mailto:darren.pitcher at spokanefalls.edu>>; Robert Cox <robert.cox at centralia.edu<mailto:robert.cox at centralia.edu>>; Christina Castorena <christina.castorena at edcc.edu<mailto:christina.castorena at edcc.edu>>; Lin Zhou <lzhou at bates.ctc.edu<mailto:lzhou at bates.ctc.edu>>; Juanita Ricks <juanita.ricks at cptc.edu<mailto:juanita.ricks at cptc.edu>>; Erin Blakeney <eblakeney at cascadia.edu<mailto:eblakeney at cascadia.edu>>; Jack Huls <jhuls at pencol.edu<mailto:jhuls at pencol.edu>>; Sue Orchard <sorchard at lowercolumbia.edu<mailto:sorchard at lowercolumbia.edu>>; Jason Hoseney <jason.hoseney at ghc.edu<mailto:jason.hoseney at ghc.edu>>; Leslie Blackaby <lblackaby at yvcc.edu<mailto:lblackaby at yvcc.edu>>; Glen Cosby <glen.cosby at scc.spokane.edu<mailto:glen.cosby at scc.spokane.edu>>; Chio Flores <cflores at wvc.edu<mailto:cflores at wvc.edu>>; Jessica Gilmore <jgilmoreenglish at rtc.edu<mailto:jgilmoreenglish at rtc.edu>>; Deb Casey <dcasey at greenriver.edu<mailto:dcasey at greenriver.edu>>; Mary Chikwinya <mchikwinya at tacomacc.edu<mailto:mchikwinya at tacomacc.edu>>; Deb Gilchrist <dgilchrist at pierce.ctc.edu<mailto:dgilchrist at pierce.ctc.edu>>; Linda Fossen <lfossen at btc.ctc.edu<mailto:lfossen at btc.ctc.edu>>; Dawna Haynes <dawnah at bigbend.edu<mailto:dawnah at bigbend.edu>>; Yoshiko Harden <yoshiko.harden at seattlecolleges.edu<mailto:yoshiko.harden at seattlecolleges.edu>>; Rosie Rimando <rosie.rimando at seattlecolleges.edu<mailto:rosie.rimando at seattlecolleges.edu>>; Joe Barrientos <joe.barrientos at seattlecolleges.edu<mailto:joe.barrientos at seattlecolleges.edu>>; Pat Campbell <pcampbell at columbiabasin.edu<mailto:pcampbell at columbiabasin.edu>>; Matthew Campbell <mcampbell at pierce.ctc.edu<mailto:mcampbell at pierce.ctc.edu>>; Jose DaSilva <jose.dasilva at wwcc.edu<mailto:jose.dasilva at wwcc.edu>>
Subject: RE: Student Conduct and Admissions

Glad to check with Dave Stolier, good question. I agree that it would be difficult to deny access to the college, but the zero tolerance approach assumes the student can enroll (but is on a short leash, so to speak). I think universities are moving more towards not admitting the students.

[Joe]
Joe Holliday
Director of Student Services

[SBCTC Logo color]

1300 Quince St SE, PO Box 42495
Olympia, WA 98504-2495
360-704-4334    jholliday at sbctc.edu<mailto:jholliday at sbctc.edu>

From: Stevens, Alison M [mailto:amstevens at shoreline.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 8:32 AM
To: Joe Holliday; Ata Karim
Cc: David Pelkey; Belden, William; Gail Miulli; Damon Bell; Luca Lewis; Ruby Hayden; Toni Castro; Dave Paul; Darren Pitcher; Robert Cox; Christina Castorena; Lin Zhou; Juanita Ricks; Erin Blakeney; Jack Huls; Sue Orchard; Jason Hoseney; Leslie Blackaby; Glen Cosby; Chio Flores; Jessica Gilmore; Deb Casey; Mary Chikwinya; Deb Gilchrist; Linda Fossen; Dawna Haynes; Yoshiko Harden; Rosie Rimando; Joe Barrientos; Pat Campbell; Matthew Campbell; Jose DaSilva
Subject: Re: Student Conduct and Admissions

Hi all,

It seems like this might be a good question for Dave Stolier... Would you be able to check in with him, Joe?

It makes me a bit nervous to turn down a student in this type of instance because of free speech issues - I've been cautioned by our AAG about the potential for inappropriately dismissing students for behavior that is first amendment protected.

Other thoughts?

Alison
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>


On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 9:55 AM -0700, "Joe Holliday" <jholliday at sbctc.edu<mailto:jholliday at sbctc.edu>> wrote:
In Oregon, the universities (not the community colleges, though) had an admissions requirement about demonstrating ability to conform to the values of the college. In this student's case, this would trigger at minimum a meeting between the student and the VPSS or conduct officer, putting the student on notice that violation of the conduct code would not be tolerated. Sort of a zero tolerance approach to students with an expulsion from another school.

Joe Holliday
SBCTC

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 30, 2016, at 9:22 AM, Ata Karim <ata.karim at bellevuecollege.edu<mailto:ata.karim at bellevuecollege.edu>> wrote:
I can check with evaluations. I do not recall off the top of my head.

Best regards,

Ata

<image003.jpg>Ata U. Karim, Ph.D.,
Vice President, Student Affairs,
Bellevue College,
425.564.2205
Ata.karim at bellevuecollege.edu<mailto:Ata.karim at bellevuecollege.edu>
Creating and sustaining a safe inclusive environment requires everyone's help and commitment. The below website offers you ways to identify and report a concern or to seek support.
https://www.bellevuecollege.edu/reportconcerns/
____________________________________________________________________
This e-mail and any files transmitted may contain confidential information as protected by the Family Education Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA), 20 USC § 1232g and/or Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. § 2510-2521. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution is prohibited. Furthermore, if you are not the intended recipient, please notify me immediately by telephone or return e-mail and completely delete this message from your system.


From: Dave Paul [mailto:Dave.Paul at skagit.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 9:19 AM
To: Belden, William <WBelden at clark.edu<mailto:WBelden at clark.edu>>; Alison Stevens <Alison.stevens at shoreline.edu<mailto:Alison.stevens at shoreline.edu>>; Ata Karim <ata.karim at bellevuecollege.edu<mailto:ata.karim at bellevuecollege.edu>>; Chio Flores <cflores at wvc.edu<mailto:cflores at wvc.edu>>; Christina Castorena <christina.castorena at edcc.edu<mailto:christina.castorena at edcc.edu>>; Damon Bell <dbell at olympic.edu<mailto:dbell at olympic.edu>>; Darren Pitcher <darren.pitcher at spokanefalls.edu<mailto:darren.pitcher at spokanefalls.edu>>; David Pelkey <dpelkey at spscc.edu<mailto:dpelkey at spscc.edu>>; Dawna Haynes <dawnah at bigbend.edu<mailto:dawnah at bigbend.edu>>; Deb Casey <dcasey at greenriver.edu<mailto:dcasey at greenriver.edu>>; Deb Gilchrist <dgilchrist at pierce.ctc.edu<mailto:dgilchrist at pierce.ctc.edu>>; Erin Blakeney <eblakeney at cascadia.edu<mailto:eblakeney at cascadia.edu>>; Gail Miulli <gmiulli at everettcc.edu<mailto:gmiulli at everettcc.edu>>; Glen Cosby <glen.cosby at scc.spokane.edu<mailto:glen.cosby at scc.spokane.edu>>; Jack Huls <JHuls at pencol.edu<mailto:JHuls at pencol.edu>>; Jason Hoseney <Jason.hoseney at ghc.edu<mailto:Jason.hoseney at ghc.edu>>; Jessica Gilmore <jgilmoreenglish at RTC.edu<mailto:jgilmoreenglish at rtc.edu>>; Joe Barrientos <Joe.Barrientos at seattlecolleges.edu<mailto:Joe.Barrientos at seattlecolleges.edu>>; Jose DaSilva <jose.dasilva at wwcc.edu<mailto:jose.dasilva at wwcc.edu>>; Juanita Ricks <Juanita.Ricks at cptc.edu<mailto:Juanita.Ricks at cptc.edu>>; Leslie Blackaby <lblackaby at yvcc.edu<mailto:lblackaby at yvcc.edu>>; Lin Zhou <lzhou at bates.ctc.edu<mailto:lzhou at bates.ctc.edu>>; Linda Fossen <lfossen at btc.ctc.edu<mailto:lfossen at btc.ctc.edu>>; Luca Lewis <llewis at whatcom.ctc.edu<mailto:llewis at whatcom.ctc.edu>>; Mary Chikwinya <mchikwinya at tacomacc.edu<mailto:mchikwinya at tacomacc.edu>>; Matthew Campbell <mcampbell at pierce.ctc.edu<mailto:mcampbell at pierce.ctc.edu>>; Pat Campbell <pcampbell at columbiabasin.edu<mailto:pcampbell at columbiabasin.edu>>; Robert Cox <rcox at centralia.edu<mailto:rcox at centralia.edu>>; Rosie Rimando <rosie.rimando at seattlecolleges.edu<mailto:rosie.rimando at seattlecolleges.edu>>; Ruby Hayden <Ruby.Hayden at lwtech.edu<mailto:Ruby.Hayden at lwtech.edu>>; Sue Orchard <sorchard at lowercolumbia.edu<mailto:sorchard at lowercolumbia.edu>>; Toni Castro <tcastro at highline.edu<mailto:tcastro at highline.edu>>; Yoshiko Harden <yoshiko.harden at seattlecolleges.edu<mailto:yoshiko.harden at seattlecolleges.edu>>
Cc: jholliday at sbctc.edu<mailto:jholliday at sbctc.edu>
Subject: Student Conduct and Admissions

Hi folks,
I've received a transcript from a university for a student who wishes to enroll at Skagit.  The transcript includes a cover letter for the Director of Student Conduct stating that the student was dismissed from the university for violating the university's code of student conduct.

Has anyone else had a case like this?  If so, how have you handled this with the student?

Thanks...
Dave

David M. Paul, Ph.D.
Vice President for Student Services
Skagit Valley College
2405 East College Way   Mount Vernon WA, 98273
(360) 416-7738

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ctc.edu/pipermail/wsssc_lists.ctc.edu/attachments/20161129/aea32ccb/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1893 bytes
Desc: image001.jpg
URL: <http://lists.ctc.edu/pipermail/wsssc_lists.ctc.edu/attachments/20161129/aea32ccb/attachment.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.png
Type: image/png
Size: 6938 bytes
Desc: image002.png
URL: <http://lists.ctc.edu/pipermail/wsssc_lists.ctc.edu/attachments/20161129/aea32ccb/attachment.png>