[Wactclc-alma] [External] RE: Perhaps I don't know how military time works...

[Thomas, Kirsti]

Hmm....In this situation, you'd have to remember to create multiple End of Term Due Date policies with unique names (End of Term Library 1, End of Term Library 2, etc.)  in the Advanced Policy Configuration table.

What's happening is that the Due Date line in the TOU is referencing a specific line in the Advanced Policy Configuration Table, which in turn is referencing a line/value from the Institutional Calendar table. The reason I know this is because "Mistakes enhance the learning process."

Luckily, all the Seattle Colleges start and end their academic terms on the same dates. There are other student registration-related dates that are different, but at least we've coordinated the start and end dates.  :)

Kirsti S. Thomas
Library Technical Service Manager
Seattle Colleges
kirsti.thomas at seattlecolleges.edu




From: Wactclc-alma [mailto:wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu] On Behalf Of Guidry, Wade
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2018 09:41
To: WACTCLC Alma Discussion <wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Wactclc-alma] [External] RE: Perhaps I don't know how military time works...

Good point, Kirsti. Not all libraries are alike.

In your case, you could set up multiple end of term dates in the calendar... "End of Term - North", "End of Term -South" etc, and then use those end of term dates in the end of term TOU for each respective library.

(If you are using separate TOUs for each library, which I think you are.)

Otherwise, an easier-to-manage option might be to just use the 'grace period' TOU policy, and set a 1 or 2 day grace period on full-quarter loans.






Wade Guidry
Library Consortium Services Manager, WACTCLC
wadeg at bigbend.edu<mailto:wadeg at bigbend.edu>
(509) 760-4474
http://www.wactclc.org


From: Wactclc-alma <wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu> On Behalf Of Thomas, Kirsti
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 5:05 PM
To: WACTCLC Alma Discussion <wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Wactclc-alma] [External] RE: Perhaps I don't know how military time works...

Wade wrote:
A more straightforward approach than relying on closed library management might be to simply set a time as well as a day for end of quarter, and set the due time to an hour or two before closing.


...assuming you only have 1 site, or that all of your sites close at the same time on the End of Term date. ;)

Kirsti





From: Wactclc-alma [mailto:wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu] On Behalf Of Guidry, Wade
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 4:54 PM
To: 'WACTCLC Alma Discussion' <wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu<mailto:wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Wactclc-alma] [External] RE: Perhaps I don't know how military time works...

Great info, Kirsti.

So, Alma is treating 24:00 and 00:00 hours equally, I believe and a due date of 06/15/2018 24:00 is equivalent to 06/15/2018 00:00.

So a closed library due date management of 'move to end of next open day' makes sense.

(I vaguely remember this 24:00 = 00:00 coming up in other TOU scenarios as well, which is why you see due times of 23:59, rather than 24:00)

A more straightforward approach than relying on closed library management might be to simply set a time as well as a day for end of quarter, and set the due time to an hour or two before closing.

As long as the due date / time occurs during library open ours, the closed library management has no effect.

I'll test this tomorrow in a sandbox and report back. Screenshot from a sandbox:

[cid:image001.png at 01D492DE.392EA420]



[Title: Big Bend Community College Logo]

Wade Guidry
Library Consortium Services Manager
Big Bend Community College
wadeg at bigbend.edu<mailto:wadeg at bigbend.edu>

509.760.4474
www.bigbend.edu<http://www.bigbend.edu/>

Big Bend Community College * 7662 Chanute Street NE * Moses Lake, WA 98837-3299


WACTCLC Alma Instance: Alma NA02<http://status.exlibrisgroup.com/>
WACTCLC Primo Instance: Primo NA08<http://status.exlibrisgroup.com/>

From: Wactclc-alma [mailto:wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu] On Behalf Of Lesley Caldwell
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 4:51 PM
To: WACTCLC Alma Discussion <wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu<mailto:wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Wactclc-alma] [External] RE: Perhaps I don't know how military time works...

Wow! Totally not intuitive, Alma!

Thanks for sharing this, Kirsti! I'm going to be working on the calendar for winter quarter tomorrow, so I will immediately put this to good use.

-Lesley

From: Wactclc-alma <wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu<mailto:wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu>> On Behalf Of Thomas, Kirsti
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 4:05 PM
To: WACTCLC Alma Discussion <wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu<mailto:wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Wactclc-alma] [External] RE: Perhaps I don't know how military time works...

Oo! Oo!  I know the answer to this!

Back in June we were trying to figure out how the heck to make some things due at closing time on the last day of the quarter.

We had an End of Term loan period.
We had Friday, June 15 defined as the End of Term Date.
We wanted these particular items to be due back when the library closed at 4:30 pm on Friday, June 15.

I tested every single one of the Due Date Management options and kept my notes about how each option behaved.  (Yay OneNote!)

If I set the Closed Library Due Date Management to be No Change To Due Date, then the due date was the End of Term Date but the due *time* was always midnight.
If I set the Closed Library Due Date Management to be Move Due Time to Next Open Time, then the due date was End of Term Date but the due *time* was the opening time from the library calendar.
If I set the Closed Library Due Date Management to be Move Due Time to Upcoming Closing Time, then the due date and time was the library closing time from the day *before* the End of Term Date
If I set the Closed Library Due Date Management to be Move to the end of the next open day, then the due date was correct and the due time was set as the closing time from the library calendar.


At the time I tested everything, I made this note:



I personally find this totally confusing, since I'd interpret "move to the end of the next open day" to mean "move to the first day after 6/15/2018 that the library is open" not "make the item due at the end of the day on the same day it would have been due anyway."


So, if you have an End of Term TOU and you want those things to be due at closing time on the last day of the term, use Move to the end of the next open day


It will be ok!

Kirsti S. Thomas
Library Technical Services Manager
Seattle Colleges
kirsti.thomas at seattlecolleges.edu<mailto:kirsti.thomas at seattlecolleges.edu>
206-934-4106





From: Wactclc-alma [mailto:wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu] On Behalf Of Lesley Caldwell
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 1:01 PM
To: WACTCLC Alma Discussion <wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu<mailto:wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Wactclc-alma] [External] RE: Perhaps I don't know how military time works...

Thanks everyone for the responses!

For next quarter, I will change the 'closed library due date management' value for the Quarter TOU to Move Due Time to Upcoming Closing Time.

I don't think anyone has answered this yet... why, if our calendar shows we close by 8:30, would Alma even make something due at midnight?

-Lesley

From: Wactclc-alma <wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu<mailto:wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu>> On Behalf Of Guidry, Wade
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 11:54 AM
To: WACTCLC Alma Discussion <wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu<mailto:wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Wactclc-alma] [External] RE: Perhaps I don't know how military time works...

Kirsti, you're hired as well :)

Your statement agrees with what Wikipedia says about times after 24:00 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24-hour_clock#Times_after_24:00)

I did open a ticket to find out if system_time_format has any impact on calculated due dates/times.

But I general suspicion is that it does not, that it's display only. And maybe only for system-related things like job history stuff. I'll report back once I hear.


Wade Guidry
Library Consortium Services Manager, WACTCLC
wadeg at bigbend.edu<mailto:wadeg at bigbend.edu>
(509) 760-4474
http://www.wactclc.org<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.wactclc.org&c=E,1,Su2wuemTGujsfn15czqt1RPTY_E5E1hNcSQ8wBlKx9jebCv9XF5e7b9PY0Xq5E_tVkTK8kpzsRsT57vIP7ZWgX2WXHu20lh0GA3V1gY4HPU_cwKvsDjNmUqt8zQ,&typo=1>


From: Wactclc-alma <wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu<mailto:wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu>> On Behalf Of Thomas, Kirsti
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 11:37 AM
To: WACTCLC Alma Discussion <wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu<mailto:wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Wactclc-alma] [External] RE: Perhaps I don't know how military time works...

I think the 24:59 type of time is something Alma uses in situations where libraries are open past midnight.  For example-your (very large research) library (with tons of staff) is open from 8 am - 1 am every day.  Even though due times that fall after midnight are technically on a different calendar day, you consider the hour between midnight and 1 am to belong to the same work day as hours between 8 am - midnight.

I think to handle "work day" situations, Alma counts from 24:00 on up and doesn't reset the 24-hour clock until the next work day.


Kirsti S. Thomas
Library Technical Services Manager
Seattle Colleges
kirsti.thomas at seattlecolleges.edu<mailto:kirsti.thomas at seattlecolleges.edu>
206-934-4106


From: Wactclc-alma [mailto:wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu] On Behalf Of Guidry, Wade
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 11:25 AM
To: WACTCLC Alma Discussion <wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu<mailto:wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Wactclc-alma] [External] RE: Perhaps I don't know how military time works...

Good find, Amy. You're hired :)

Though, the way I read that page, the context is job history display.

Not sure whether TOU calculations are actually affected. I'll have to open a ticket to find out.

(The general idea of 01:00 to 24:59 even being a thing is news to me. But may be a standard in some countries, I guess.)


Wade Guidry
Library Consortium Services Manager, WACTCLC
wadeg at bigbend.edu<mailto:wadeg at bigbend.edu>
(509) 760-4474
http://www.wactclc.org<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.wactclc.org&c=E,1,uScHCAlqClaP_HoexVKlSAdpvINWIVgjGIBQJV9wzBPm37NRQTXw2C7XW6S46p9QRq58fnOIVM2PCQU5WMS1JkNyCubvDXJQrzn3ecdbrIK7eukiBkZcXeM,&typo=1>


From: Wactclc-alma <wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu<mailto:wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu>> On Behalf Of Herman, Amy
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 10:36 AM
To: WACTCLC Alma Discussion <wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu<mailto:wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Wactclc-alma] [External] RE: Perhaps I don't know how military time works...

Wade, I just found this which indicates that Alma interprets 24:00 as 00:00 if the system_time_format uses kk instead of HH (I think)

https://knowledge.exlibrisgroup.com/Alma/Knowledge_Articles/Times_between_24%3A00_and_24%3A59<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fknowledge.exlibrisgroup.com%2fAlma%2fKnowledge_Articles%2fTimes_between_24%253A00_and_24%253A59&c=E,1,_GWIrNTWb2I4-BAq8Cdb08coa6HsrwjkSMHw-UBVNteX3HrhtZRuyYoOKGMffMi4z2aEi1alzguJS5v5bMreZc3X2Q1bdI_MRsOu7CLCWZt3Aihv&typo=1>


Amy Herman
Library Faculty | Olympic College
1600 Chester Avenue | Bremerton, WA 98337
aherman at olympic.edu<mailto:aherman at olympic.edu> | 360-475-7256

[alma signature]


From: Wactclc-alma <wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu<mailto:wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu>> On Behalf Of Guidry, Wade
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 10:34 AM
To: 'WACTCLC Alma Discussion' <wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu<mailto:wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu>>
Subject: [External] RE: [Wactclc-alma] Perhaps I don't know how military time works...

24:00 is midnight, so midnight tonight.

I believe this has something to do with the students expiring today.

The TOU for Quarter loans has closed library due date management set to 'no change', and the students expiring on that same day.

Too late for this quarter, but change the 'closed library due date management' value for that TOU to Move Due Time to Upcoming Closing Time.

There may be something else, but I believe that's the crux.

I don't see the fine on the patron's record any longer, though. Did you already remove those?

Anyway, Lesley, you deserve extra special credit for working so hard so close to your maternity leave, both on Primo VE, this, and I'm sure numerous other things. Seriously, bravo.

I wonder if your newborn is going to be some kind of Alma / Primo savant? Let's hope not :) (And though I'm sure you'll be tempted, don't name them 'Alma'. Otherwise you'll be troubleshooting Alma the rest of your life. :)






[Title: Big Bend Community College Logo]

Wade Guidry
Library Consortium Services Manager
Big Bend Community College
wadeg at bigbend.edu<mailto:wadeg at bigbend.edu>

509.760.4474
www.bigbend.edu<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.bigbend.edu%2f&c=E,1,BPbzKzYbskRsH0J9Z8wyqcVvqhE-AcXBHfe0hJP1cnRZ-wnAMI_yqDHTd_A0mlDZCtWPWwIK2GwewG-loIoK0TZLJ-9qWKB9bawXp6YVao5hOTv88wlRuHA,&typo=1>

Big Bend Community College * 7662 Chanute Street NE * Moses Lake, WA 98837-3299


WACTCLC Alma Instance: Alma NA02<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fstatus.exlibrisgroup.com%2f&c=E,1,eQjr4Jdi8ownkIXAqeEY7iSlcabBQmKpQfRqW5z2fuNddfg1KW9zxGWNuEmt7FlTSeej6Jc7tpcBEACo0725pN2hKePcuJIyOQ1A35PypSg2RPY,&typo=1>
WACTCLC Primo Instance: Primo NA08<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fstatus.exlibrisgroup.com%2f&c=E,1,y3Xuex3H1WS_tbk2iuEdI52DOUIKE3QRMXcGdLIrYwDpNuCevN0-DRhw2XKGltt0gOaWgPrvTEd00kBDL_9PwJjNnfDL5qZm0XGf6Pb5OftF37hk3csLaQw,&typo=1>

From: Wactclc-alma [mailto:wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu] On Behalf Of Lesley Caldwell
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 10:02 AM
To: WACTCLC Alma Discussion <wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu<mailto:wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Wactclc-alma] Perhaps I don't know how military time works...

ATTENTION: This email contains links. Please follow best practices before clicking on links
Moreover, why did Alma decide 24:00 in the first place?

Standard hours

[cid:image003.png at 01D49201.4817F820]
[cid:image009.png at 01D49203.8078E1F0]

[cid:image010.png at 01D49203.8078E1F0]

From: Wactclc-alma <wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu<mailto:wactclc-alma-bounces at lists.ctc.edu>> On Behalf Of Lesley Caldwell
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2018 9:42 AM
To: WACTCLC Alma Discussion <wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu<mailto:wactclc-alma at lists.ctc.edu>>
Subject: [Wactclc-alma] Perhaps I don't know how military time works...

All of our students who had quarterly checkouts are being charged a $5 late fine:
[cid:image001.png at 01D49201.35660CD0]

Does Alma think 12/12 24:00 already happened? ... Did it? :)
-Lesley

Lesley Caldwell

Systems and Instruction Librarian

Pierce College

p:

(253) 840-8420

a:

1601 39th Ave SE, Puyallup, WA 98374

w:

www.pierce.ctc.edu<http://www.pierce.ctc.edu/> e: lcaldwell at pierce.ctc.edu<mailto:lcaldwell at pierce.ctc.edu>

[http://www.pierce.ctc.edu/50th-Email.png]



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